Mike Rowe

From Mike’s forum on Discovery:

Q: Mike – I’m not on the Crumbling Infrastructure Bandwagon. It’s very much a case of a buzzword becoming truth, and like the now discredited Global Warming farce, naysayers are branded as ignorant clods. They are pitied as being blind to Undeniable Truths. Speaking from the perspective of the uneducated prol, here’s how I see it:

The American Society of Civil Engineers is hardly an objective observer in this matter. Civil Engineers do a great many things, but most make their living designing, building and maintaining, what? Infrastructure!

There are three problems here. First, of course things are crumbling, at least in their eyes. Good roads and adequate sewers do not add anything to their bottom line. They make big money when things are being built. They make decent money when things are being refurbished. They make no money when either routine maintenance or patching is being done. And best of all, an awful lot of these guys make their livings off the U.S. taxpayers.

Secondly, engineers do not know everything they think they do. Remember the show about paving? How the Interstate Highway system was built using materials and practices that were supposed to last twenty-plus years? And the highways in Nebraska were deteriorating far faster than that? In my part of the country, it’s even worse. Roads get built on black loam, which covers peat, which covers coal, which covers limestone. The limestone can be over a hundred feet down. Plus high to low temperature excursions of 120+ degrees. It’s no wonder the roads deteriorate, but any engineer worth his plaid pants will assure you that he can build a twenty year road, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Thirdly, nothing is ever built to really last. Designing and building any project is a tradeoff between cost and durability. New materials evolve faster than the old ones fail. Things become lighter, cheaper, and faster to build, and building techniques advance every year. Why? Labor is expensive! Compared to the rest of a project, it usually isn’t really, but if you look at a road or a culvert, you see concrete, not footprints.

I was an Engineer in a former life. I’ve seen the underbelly. Indeed, I was a scale on that underbelly, and I am sorry to admit that I was a darned good scale, but a scale nonetheless. I just didn’t have the stomach for it after while, and went blue collar.

Sorry for the all of stomach references, it wasn’t very dignified. But I’ve never squat-thrown freethrows in a red shorty, either!

— D

 

I hear ya, D. But it’s funny how quickly the bandwagon got built. Five years ago, a nexus search of major newspapers would have yielded a return on “infrastructure” at a fraction of its current ubiquity. Most people didn’t even know what it meant. There is indeed a “bandwagon.” But it’s still relatively small.

“It’s very much a case of a buzzword becoming truth, and like the now discredited Global Warming farce, naysayers are branded as ignorant clods. They are pitied as being blind to Undeniable Truths.”

Good point. It’s never as simple as a “bad grade,” but it’s also a pretty clear case of “out of sight out of mind.” And unlike global warming, the infrastructure is a thing we can actually improve. It’s within our power. The issue, is whether or not it’s worth our trouble to do so. I agree that there is not much credible evidence that proves that man has in fact “created” global warming. But we all know who “created” the infrastructure. And I’m pretty sure we all know who will have to fix it.

“Speaking from the perspective of the uneducated prol, here’s how I see it:”

It’s the only credible perspective…

“The American Society of Civil Engineers is hardly an objective observer in this matter. Civil Engineers do a great many things, but most make their living designing, building and maintaining, what? Infrastructure!”

Agreed. But then, who IS objective these days? And while a lack objectivity is good cause for suspicion, it’s not an indicator of inaccuracy.

“There are three problems here. First, of course things are crumbling, at least in their eyes. Good roads and adequate sewers do not add anything to their bottom line. They make big money when things are being built. They make decent money when things are being refurbished. They make no money when either routine maintenance or patching is being done. And best of all, an awful lot of these guys make their livings off the U.S. taxpayers.”

I don’t see that as problem, so much as a fact. The ASCE is biased. But again, that doesn’t mean they’re incorrect. Personally, there is nothing more vexing than the sight of my tax-dollars being used to repair a thing that does not actually require repair. Waste is never ever a good thing. It’s immoral, in my opinion. Clearly there is a conflict of interest with the ASCE, and that conflict should always be acknowledged and injected into any conversation on the topic. I should have made a bigger point of that in the show, and regret that I did not.

“Secondly, engineers do not know everything they think they do. Remember the show about paving? How the Interstate Highway system was built using materials and practices that were supposed to last twenty-plus years? And the highways in Nebraska were deteriorating far faster than that? In my part of the country, it’s even worse. Roads get built on black loam, which covers peat, which covers coal, which covers limestone. The limestone can be over a hundred feet down. Plus high to low temperature excursions of 120+ degrees. It’s no wonder the roads deteriorate, but any engineer worth his plaid pants will assure you that he can build a twenty year road, despite ample evidence to the contrary.”

The reasons why roads and pipes and bridges and everything else fall apart are several, and most definitely include faulty thinking and dubious analysis and questionable conclusions on the part of human “experts.” (You may recall Act 6 of The Dirty Jobs Platitude Special, Be Wary of Experts.) However, the current problems (and I think we agree there are real pressing problems to some extent, right?) exist separate and apart from their various causes. Left untreated, there will most certainly be consequences. We see them every single day. Gas lines blow up. Sewers rupture. Bridges fall down. How dire, and when these consequences present themselves is a matter of degree. (Or, as the ASCE would say, D-gree.)

“Thirdly, nothing is ever built to really last.”

And even if they were, they wouldn’t. That is to say, they couldn’t. No matter how advanced we become, all things fail, sooner or later. Beyond the bias and the politics and the posturing and the “works projects” and the “planned obsolescence,” the second law of thermodynamics is looming like a barking dark in the backyard. Things fall apart. All things.

“Designing and building any project is a tradeoff between cost and durability. New materials evolve faster than the old ones fail. Things become lighter, cheaper, and faster to build, and building techniques advance every year. Why? Labor is expensive! Compared to the rest of a project, it usually isn’t really, but if you look at a road or a culvert, you see concrete, not footprints.”

Your point seems to make a better case for alarm than suspicion. Expensive labor is an excellent reason to postpone a necessary repair. As you point out, there is nothing fiscally advantageous or politically expedient in the business of routine maintenance. People who promise to build bridges get elected. People who promise to maintain them get pushed aside. Part of the reason the infrastructure is a mess – in my opinion – is because we don’t value maintenance.

“I was an Engineer in a former life. I’ve seen the underbelly. Indeed, I was a scale on that underbelly, and I am sorry to admit that I was a darned good scale, but a scale nonetheless. I just didn’t have the stomach for it after a while, and went blue collar.”

I suspect you possess other qualities worthy of admiration. But this one is very good.

“Sorry for the all of stomach references, it wasn’t very dignified. But I’ve never squat-thrown freethrows in a red shorty, either!”

First time for everything. Perhaps I’ll convince Barsky to auction his outfit on E-bay, and donate the proceeds to a road-crew near you…

Thanks,

Mike